| Author | Message | ||
     Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 759 Registered: 6-2009 |
This YouTube video, entitled Removing a seized piston from a Rolls-Royce brake caliper, shows a rather creative, but grossly cavalier as far as safety goes, way of getting a seized piston out. The principle works, in a manner of speaking. The language is as colorful as the technique! Someone posted it on the RROC-US forums and then I had the link shared with me. Don't try this at home, but have fun watching what some people will do without thinking. I think this would have been perfect for the US television series entitled Jackass. Brian | ||
| Jeff Young Prolific User Username: jeyjey Post Number: 186 Registered: 10-2010 |
He he... that was pretty funny. (What's with the uPVC walls, though? Doesn't anyone make anything out of "real" materials anymore?) Jeff. | ||
| Jim Walters New User Username: jim_walters Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2014 |
Funny, but.... Morons, dangerous morons. For those of you who do not know, the correct way to remove seized caliper pistons is with a grease gun and grease. Without splitting the caliper halves, fit a grease fitting into the hose port and with the bleed screw port at the top of the caliper pump it full of grease until only grease comes out the bleed screw port. Then tighten the bleed screw and pump until one piston is just about out. Then place a steel bar where the pads rest, that will stop the looser piston and allow the tighter piston to get all the pressure and move. A grease gun can build up a very high pressure which will free any stuck caliper piston. As the grease does not compress, there is no sudden expansion when a piston does pop out. This method is very safe unlike the one those idiots in the video used. SRE22493 NAC-05370 www.bristolmotors.com | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1374 Registered: 4-2003 |
Not funny - utter and complete stupidity; the lack of basic safety precautions defies justification. Unfortunately, someone will see this and try to replicate it with serious consequences. Prime candidates for a Darwin Award??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Awards | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 763 Registered: 6-2009 |
David, I agree about utter and complete stupidity coupled with no appreciation whatsoever of safety, precautions or otherwise. However, that's what makes this, like most Darwin Award winners, funny, most often in a "What were they thinking?!!!" kind of way. I don't find this "bust a gut" funny, though some do, but it does cause a wry smile to cross my face with Darwin Award thoughts dancing in my head as well. What little I've ever seen of the stunts on the television series I mentioned previously generally fit the Darwin Award criteria, too. I seldom saw any humor in them, though. I'm actually quite grateful for Jim Walters' contribution to this thread. I never knew what the "safety approved method" for extracting a seized piston was. I had hoped it might inspire someone to share that, and it did. I hope I don't even ever have to try that method, but at least know about it if the need arises. Brian | ||
| Randy Roberson Prolific User Username: wascator Post Number: 197 Registered: 5-2009 |
I thought they were doing it on purpose, showing off, and knew exactly what would happen. It was intended to be funny in an adolescent sort of way. You can use a cheap grease gun and water, or any convenient liquid, as long as it is not combustible or dangerous, and push the pistons right out. Grease is kinda messy but nonetheless effective and it's handy. I worry about getting it all out of the caliper, though, as petroleum and brake rubber don't like each other. I know I will end up with it in my nose and ears... | ||
| Bob Reynolds Frequent User Username: bobreynolds Post Number: 73 Registered: 8-2012 |
Well you could simply use brake fluid. But I wonder whether a grease gun will pump liquids at all, as they might be too thin? (I've never tried) | ||
| Jim Walters New User Username: jim_walters Post Number: 10 Registered: 1-2014 |
Bob, sure you could use brake fluid if you want to make a mess when it sprays out after a piston gets past the seal. Take it from a professional mechanic with over 40 years experience, grease in a grease gun is the safest, easiest way to do it. It always works, and doesn't make a mess. What I should add to my previous post is that I assumed one would be splitting the caliper halves and fitting all new seals. It is easy to clean the grease out of the fluid holes once the caliper halves are separated. SRE22493 NAC-05370 www.bristolmotors.com | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 3003 Registered: 4-2003 |
Then again, one can buy a complete brand new caliper. They are inexpensive, and these days they sell for less than $300 and avoid all this nonsense. Bolt on and go. RT. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 3004 Registered: 4-2003 |
Agreed, although expressly against the recommendation of Crewe. Crewe says never to split the halves. So. Warning. When ordering parts, don't forget to order the gallery seal RH2577SP (RR363 systems) or GMF1266SP (LHM systems) if you wish to split the halves. This little bit is priced at around $10, so maybe the Crewe recommendation never to split the halves has merit. RT. | ||
| Jeff Young Prolific User Username: jeyjey Post Number: 187 Registered: 10-2010 |
This whole splitting the calipers thing always confused me. It's also "against recommendation" for most other British iron. Yet when I raced FF and Vintage, I split and overhauled countless calipers (ATE, Lockheed, Girling, etc.). Never had an issue. Is this just that people tend to leave out the little sealing o-ring in the cross-over passage (for those that have internal cross-overs)? Or that they don't use proper AN-spec bolts on re-assembly? Or is there something else that can go wrong (and just didn't in all my cases)? (The Carroll Smith books were my Bible when racing, but I can't remember what, if anything, he had to say on the subject....) Cheers, Jeff. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 767 Registered: 6-2009 |
Because I have been contemplating a complete left rear caliper overhaul I decided to write to the "go to" company for Crewe Original or high quality reproduction parts here in the USA. The price for a reproduction left rear caliper, part number UG14487R, is US $550, almost double Richard's quoted figure. As I've noted before, I believe that parts pricing (and, sometimes, availability) is quite different within the Commonwealth countries as opposed to the United States. We can't touch RR363 here these days for anything less than a shade under $30/litre (in packages of 4) and about $33/litre for single bottles. If you only need the seal kit (CD 5847) it's $140 for Crewe Original or $71 for repro along with $16 in caliper O-rings (four - TY674). Caliper pistons (CD4074) are $40 each for Crewe Original and $32 each repro. A set of repro rear brake pads is $115. So, presuming the repro caliper comes with the brake pads it's $550 versus $333 if you're rebuilding it yourself using all repro parts. That differential would probably be worth it to me unless I could source the functional equivalents of the seals as inexpensively as I have done for most of the hydraulic kits. In that case it's no contest - overhaul. Brian | ||
| Randy Roberson Prolific User Username: wascator Post Number: 202 Registered: 5-2009 |
Think I bought the caliper piston seals and rubber boots and the O-rings to split the calipers all round at Albers for about $160, a couple of years ago. There is literally nothing to the calipers but a casting with a bore in it, far as I could see. if the bore is clean, go. You might find some corrosion on the pistons; if so, replace. I can see nothing special about splitting the calipers, either: it is just a square cross section O-ring about the size of the end of your finger, and bolts. I hate brake fluid, but I got through it. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 374 Registered: 5-2012 |
Brian, I have to take issue with your costings here. The best case scenario for reconditioning a front caliper is $20 and the worst case, $51.50. My calculations are based on the Flying Spares price of $70 +$10 postage for a recon kit for all four calipers. Hence, $20 for each caliper. The worst case scenario is based on having to include the cost of the gallery seal and piston. In my (limited) experience I have never come across a supplier that includes the brakes pads with the caliper. Also, a quick look at the caliper diagrams on the Autozone and NAPA websites do not include brake pads with the calipers. I have no idea whether Crewe does include the brake pads, but I am making the assumption they do not. So, I would give the costings as $550 versus $20. However, I would never replace a single caliper without, at the very least, reconditioning the other calipers on that axle. So, the actual comparison of Crewe originals versus reconditioning your own is $2,200 to $80. Geoff | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 768 Registered: 6-2009 |
Geoff, Mind you, I am quoting the cost of four pistons in that $333 (that would be $128 of it) plus $71 for the seal kit, plus $16 for the additional seals, plus $115 for the brake pads. If you knock out the pistons and the brake pads you're down to $97. If brake pads are not included with a caliper then you have an even wider split in cost between $97 (still ludicrous for a collection of EPDM seals) and the $550 (but, to be fair, a new caliper would have all four pistons and seals, etc.) You can take issue with the cost all you like. I can send you the price quote by e-mail - it's all there. This is one of the reasons I do put the time and effort that I put into finding alternate parts and the actual components of the various seal kits. The mark-up here in the USA is outrageous as a matter of course. Brian | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 769 Registered: 6-2009 |
It occurred to me that I can post a snapshot of the pertinent part of the price quote I received this morning:  | ||
| Bob Reynolds Frequent User Username: bobreynolds Post Number: 74 Registered: 8-2012 |
I am amazed at some of these prices being quoted! Just to add to this discussion and put things into perspective, I replaced all 4 front calipers on my SS1 last year with complete reconditioned units from F.Spares, for £85.50 (+vat) each. These are complete calipers and pistons, ready to bolt on. At this price, it wasn't worth the price of a repair kit and all the hassle of doing the job myself. That is actually cheaper than most modern cars! The calipers looked brand new and they didn't want my old calipers back either. Which makes me wonder whether they are actually having them manufactured somewhere. A complete set of brake pads, pins & springs for the front was only £61. So that's the entire front brakes renewed for only £403. What a difference from the prices quoted above! With such a huge difference in prices between the US and UK, wouldn't it be much cheaper to import them from F.Spares? Even accounting for the price of shipping. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 770 Registered: 6-2009 |
Bob, Sometimes it is less expensive to buy from Flying Spares, Introcar, Roberts-Hall, etc., and many, many people do. I bought my last set of compliance mounts from the UK because they were significantly less expensive, shipping included, than they could be sourced from any Crewe Original supplier that I checked with in the USA. However, it's also astounding how much shipping from the UK to the US can cost, particularly for heavy items. There have been multiple occasions where I was ready to buy from the UK until the shipping charges were added, then the price differential wasn't all that enticing (particularly if core returns were involved). I can honestly say that this quote is pretty much in line with what I typically get when dealing with Crewe Original and/or very well respected repro suppliers here in the USA. The same supplier charged me $17.81 for a UE10378 aluminum crush washer (the one that goes between the ACV and the double-ended adapter that the brake pump pipe screws on to). Shortly afterward I had a batch (of 15 or so) custom machined for $20. The prices charged for Crewe Original parts in the USA is well-nigh impossible to justify for items that are dirt-common but get dropped into a Crewe Original bag and marked up in the thousands of percent. I can't even begin to imagine how little the O-rings that make up repro rear caliper kit cost, which is obscenely priced at $71, let's not even talk about $140!! These O-rings are not being formed out of a combination of Tibetan Yak butter, angora wool, and soot then prayed over by monks before being bagged and stored for three centuries before sale. One would think that they should be, with gold plating added, for the typical price on these shores. Brian | ||
| Jordan Devine New User Username: jordan_devine Post Number: 10 Registered: 12-2007 |
I recently received pads, rotors, bearings and a front caliper seal kit from http://www.spurparts.com.au/ They were at a great prices and were delivered straight away. Here they are along with a few other bits like wheel bearings and seals, and serving consumables also from SpurParts.  As the parts are already in Australia, big shipping charges are a thing of the past. I'm glad I didn't have to air freight the rotors from the UK, as they're not carbon-ceramic lightweight ones for sure! But the main thing is though, people keep forgetting that you can add red spice to make the brakes go faster.  Stand up for the levitating holy Turbo R.  Here are the bearings, seals and rotors done.  Then on to the calipers, with the hot sauce added.  They even look faster now.  It was also a good time for a tyre change pit stop.  I put Perelli P Zero's on. Went with the all weather, not the slicks this time. I'll leave them to the Bentley GT3 race car.  Now with the wheel back on the car.  But after the work, the wheels were quite dirty. So did a quick clean.  Masked up the wheels.  And added a few more coats of Plastidip for fun.  I previously made a video the first time I painted them here. So to the finished product.  Definitely looks faster.  It's the red that makes the breaking and grip better. Nothing to do with the new tyres, bearings, seals, caliper internals, pads, rotors, mineral oil or any of that. Next on the list are the rear spheres, as it's getting bouncy in the back seat. And not in a good way. I'll probably have to seek Bill Coburn or Richard Treacy's help with changing those! | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 3006 Registered: 4-2003 |
Now Jordan, you are such a Pratt. What size Zedder tyres are those ? I too just bunged a set of Pirelli P-Zeros on mine, but they are tiny 255.55ZR17 104Y by your standards. Yes, yours are at least 18 or 19 inchers if I remember correctly. I ran out of paint. Blast. I'll just have to brake so hard that the calipers become red hot through temperature rise alone. RT. | ||
| Jordan Devine Experienced User Username: jordan_devine Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2007 |
Haha - you have to have fun with these cars! They bring smiles to peoples faces. I went with 255/45 x ZR18. Same size as I had previously on them. The Continental T wheels are 18" by 9.5" and are meant to have 285/45 x ZR18 - but that wide tyre rubs on the rear! I totally kept 2 of the old tyres that were in ok nick for when we have Bentley track days! | ||
| Randy Roberson Prolific User Username: wascator Post Number: 205 Registered: 5-2009 |
I was terribly disappointed with my caliper painting: I used silver and there was visible rust stains not long after I reassembled. My Car had not even been washed, either. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 3007 Registered: 4-2003 |
Thanks, JD. If you can't enjoy a bit of opposite lock, then you may as well drive Volvos and Chevrolets. RT. | ||
| Bob Reynolds Frequent User Username: bobreynolds Post Number: 75 Registered: 8-2012 |
All that boy racer nonsense might be ok for a Bentley - but not for a Rolls-Royce.  |
