| Author | Message | ||
     Bill Fraser New User Username: wsf Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2005 |
1988 Turbo R - the steering rack is leaking and there seems to be some wear/slack in the rack. Also an oil leak from the front crank shaft seal? Can anyone advise of a reputable repairer in the Gold Coast / Brisbane area. Any idea of a likely cost to repair / exchange the rack? Haven't got chassis details sorry - car belongs to a friend | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2200 Registered: 4-2003 |
Bill, To remove and refit the rack is in itself a rather trivial job, and any steering shop or workshop should be able to have it out in less than an hour with little risk of doing anything wrong. There are caveats on refitting it – well, that’s my opinion as expressed in the Tee-One article. Given that these racks are notoriously troublesome, I suggest that a well-meaning local without knowledge of the specific problems be avoided for a rack rebuild itself. I recommend that any repairer or rebuilder read the article, even if they choose to rubbish it. You may see the article by searching the Technical Library of go straight to: http://rrtechnical.info/miscellaneous/rackextract.pdf Removing and refitting the same rack does not affect the wheel alignment at all. However, if upgrading to a later-series rack (mine is a 1997 rack in a 1987 car, and needed the Crewe adaptor kit), it is advisable at least to check the toe-in. Mine is still fine since I rebuilt it in early 2006 (touch wood, it has never needed even a drop of fluid) as are another two that I have done. One has uprated main seals, but it has not covered enough mileage to justify any Eurekas yet. You may pm me if you wish. I know of a particular Sydney shop which is widely respected to rebuild these racks. They will rebuild one and return it to Qld, but of course I have been doing my own. There are several expensive exchange programmes around. I would strongly recommend an exchange if the rack in question is in an almost unrepairable state. That way, some other mug will end up with your problem rack once it has been cobbled back together for a short new life. The corollary is that I would never go for an exchange anything if my own were reasonable repairable. Incidentally, I have seen several SY and SZ racks which apparently leak but are not faulty. This is a big beware. If you turn the steering without the motor running, then fluid is pumped out through the steering pump breather. That is quite correct given the design. Unless pressurised by the pump, the main seals acts as an air pump to allow the steering to move. Unable to draw fluid from anywhere, it sucks air into one fluid chamber under those circumstances, thereby pushing up the level in the reservoir past the filler neck as the other chamber forces its fluid back into the return system. The last paragraph explains why many cars are returned from a workshop with little or no steering fluid left. If the steering is moved around, for example when shuffling inoperative cars between bays, it will lose fluid. This applies to the vehicle testing stations too, as they like to have the motor turned off while they swing the steering from side to side to check the ball joints. Hell, then they try to fail the car because a big pool of steering fluid has contaminated the precious floor. RT. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2201 Registered: 4-2003 |
Cost-wise, a rack remove/rebuild/refit could be around A$1,000 minimum at a commercial shop for example. A new front engine seal is very labour intensive to fit and may cost A$,1500 or even much more. Crewe quotes 9.5 hours for the job, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it took 15 hours. That’s over $2,000 in labour alone. Add on a $20 seal, $100 gaskets, $200 coolant and whatever, and you are well over two grand. When doing that job, given its magnitude down there in the guts of it all, it is also advisable to do several other thinks, like to overhaul the oil pump or whatever. It becomes rather expensive quite quickly. Before launching into a front seal replacement, do check the flame trap system. If the system is blocked or otherwise malfunctioning, then the front crankshaft seal can leak even given the lip seal on these cars. On Turbo cars, if the flame trap changeover valving is not operating correctly, then the crankcase may pressurise alarmingly causing no end of leaks and other problems. RT. | ||
| Omar M. Shams Prolific User Username: omar Post Number: 159 Registered: 4-2009 |
Richard, the link http://rrtechnical.info/miscellaneous/rackextract.pdf shows images that are not very clear. when I was doing my rack I used your useful link but got stuck with the pinion. the drawings and images do not show this section in any detail. Do you have the same link availble in better detail? thanks Omar | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2204 Registered: 4-2003 |
Omar, I have this minute updated the Technical Library with a slightly better quality document. Also, at the end I have added the part included in Tee-One Topics as the pictures are better. I can email the original jpegs to anyone who needs them too. I have some more quality pictures of assembling the spool valve, especially the ptfe rings. Som dos and some don'ts. I'll dig them up over the weekend. The link is unaltered, but you may need to refresh your browser or download the link again. Go to: http://rrtechnical.info/miscellaneous/miscellaneoust.html or directly to: http://rrtechnical.info/miscellaneous/rackextract.pdf RT. | ||
| Bill Fraser New User Username: wsf Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2005 |
Thanks Richard, I will be seeing the owner early next week - he will appreciate the advice. I have been reading up older posts about the leaks and came across the flame-trap issue - that will be checked for sure. I sold my Turbo R in NZL and have moved to Brisbane. Regards, Bill | ||
| Omar M. Shams Prolific User Username: omar Post Number: 160 Registered: 4-2009 |
many thanks Richard. do You by any chance have any details for rebuilding the spool valve? a step by step account would be very useful indeed. thanks Omar | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2205 Registered: 4-2003 |
Omar, I'll write it up and post it. There are a few nuances. It's all in the PTFE (Teflon®) valve rings, and also in the PTFE end seal on the later racks. Early racks have a standard lip seal at the upper end of the spool valve - easier to fit but inferior. RT. | ||
| Dave Burbidge Experienced User Username: ovation Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2009 |
I have just taken my steering rack to Col Robinson and Co of Kedron Brisbane. Cnr Kitchener Rd/ Glentanna Rd phone 07 3350 4000 mobile 0419 738 829 I had been quoted $1250 by a mechanic and another spares supplier who clearly think we are all made of money and ripe for ripping off, then $750 from a Melbourne company which was bit better but couriers aren't cheap. Gary's price was $450 plus any polishing if needed. Give them a try ring Mandy or Gary. The mechanic I have been using ( but no longer) also told me it takes 3 1/2 hours to get a rack out. How come it took me 1 hour and I have never done this before. All I can say is be careful who you trust. | ||
| Dave Burbidge Experienced User Username: ovation Post Number: 24 Registered: 8-2009 |
well folks the cost came in at $400 plus GST = $440. Nice new seals . bellows and painted so it looked like new  I was going to fit it myself but my wife, Jackie , who drives it for her wedding car business didn't trust me to put it back properly in so I used a reputable mechanic on the Gold Coast ( yes there is one here) Jackie offered to clean up his workshop but he reckoned he would never find anything if it was cleaned up. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2250 Registered: 4-2003 |
I trust that all is well now and that there are no more leaks. Which kit did he use, and did he follow the advice on assembly, particularly when gapping the new PTFE/Teflon bearing rings ? I assume that he filled the geas cavity with CV joint grease and not conventional gear oil. Also, did he convert from Dexron to proper hydraulic fluid or to the preferred LHM ? Also, which main (piston) seals did he use ? For anyone having a rack overhauled, I have now sourced the last word in the main (piston) seals. The genuine ones, the ones that leak, leave somewhat to be desired and don’t last well unless the PTFE bearing rings are set up perfectly. I have applied traditional Nitrile seals, but specials with internal spreaders unlike the genuine ones, in one rack with perfect results. However, now, during a recent visit to Germany, I have sourced some Urethane ones (see the O-Rings and Seals Materials section in the Technical Library). These are blue in colour. They are the correct Imperial size, not a Metric approximation. Urethane promises vastly superior life over all others in this application. At $100 a pair they are not cheap, but I dare say that they will be the final piece of the jigsaw puzzle in solving rack problems. If someone intends to have a rack overhauled, please contact me if you want some Urethane seals. I can provide them at cost, but they are not available readily elsewhere. RT. | ||
| Chris Roberts Unregistered guest Posted From: 82.31.188.46 |
My rack is leaking and also the centre tube section has free play and will twist slightly. I cannot see from drawings/pictures what is supposed to stop this happening. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Dwight E. Sisk Unregistered guest Posted From: 75.245.58.177 |
Richard, I read your rack repair article. I have a left hand drive 82 Spirit. I was confused and perplexed on mine because the floating mount on the right side would not come off the tube. I had to find out that it was not screwed on and finally a hydraulic press was required to press it off. I'm telling you this because someone may need to know a press is needed if they have the same problem. Another thing I did for seals is I opened my old wheel cyclinder cup selection and low and behold I had several virtually identical to the original with the needed exception that they were a bit larger OD(very good but not too big) however they were too wide for them to fit into the machined groove they fit in. I installed the seal anyway even though it was too thick and proceeded to install an o-ring inside the seal where you would normally find a spring on oil seals. This served the purpose of a tighter grip on the inside of the seal and also expanded the outside diameter of the seal a bit more for even better OD sealing. Time will tell but no leaks yet. I also used CV grease instead of liquid for the rack. I didn't bother with the ptfe because they were ok. (Message approved by david_gore) |
