| Author | Message | ||
     KC Saayman Frequent User Username: kc_saayman Post Number: 35 Registered: 10-2004 |
I'll try this again with the correct Subject line... Hi all My 1974 Silver Shadow SRH19461 was treated to a new engine obtained from Crew in 1997 (under previous ownership) The new engine has a spin-on oil filter, which my books tell me was only introduced with chassis 30001, Shadow II. Now I am wondering if I have a Shadow II engine, or could this be a later conversion? Is there any detail on the engine that would indicate if it is indeed a SII unit? Where would I find the engine number? Kind regards KC www.ClassicRollsSA.co.za | ||
| John Richardson Unregistered guest Posted From: 124.178.199.12 |
Hello KC, The answer to your question, plus additional interesting information, may possibly be found under the RROCA Forum Topic Technical documentation from RREC which was commenced on 8 July 2005, where questions were asked about Engine Numbers. One response was that, “Advice I have is that Rolls-Royce/Bentley adopted a system, where each vehicle in the Silver Shadow/T range was issued a Unique Chassis Number consisting of Three Alpha characters and up to 5 numerals, with the Engine Block/Crankcase being Uniquely stamped with the same numerals as each Unique Chassis Number, where each Unique Engine Number is located on the left hand front corner of the cylinder block “B” Bank. It appears a Casting Number prefixed with either the Alpha characters SY or SYL followed by various numerals etc also appears on the top face of each timing chest near the centre and Factory records show which Casting Number is/was allocated to each Chassis/car. Upon delivery, invoices to Customers apparently showed the engine number as the same as the Chassis Number without Alpha characters. Advice is the Casting Number Prefix SY is allocated to 3.6 stroke engines and the Prefix SYL is allocated to 3.9 stroke engines.“ Richard Treacy advised, “You are quite correct abput engine numbers: SY is the model code for Silver Shadow of course, and the SYL is indeed the long stroke 6750cc motor. USUALLY the chassis number and engine number digits are the same, but there are some curious exceptions. Chassis build sheets even show inconsistencies. The Crewe policy was even to renumber exchange motors to match the chassis, but oddly some new cars were delivered with numbers not matching.” Hope this assists. Johnny (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 585 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi KC & John, It is my understanding the engine number matching only applied to cars still in the factory before delivery if the nominated engine failed acceptance testing. I would not expect complete engines sold as spare parts would receive "same numbering as original" treatment due to obvious benefits for unscrupulous characters on the dark side of the automotive industry. As the engine specifications changed over time, I would expect the replacement engines to conform to the latest factory specification to keep stock inventory at a realistic level and this would account for the spin-off oil filter. | ||
| John Richardson Unregistered guest Posted From: 124.178.199.12 |
Thank you for the informastion David. Sounds logical. When KC advises the New Engine Number, it will be interesting to see how it is numbered to denote a Factory Exchange Engine. Doubtless the New Engine and Casting Number should be reflected in the Factory Records. Johnny (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| KC Saayman Frequent User Username: kc_saayman Post Number: 38 Registered: 10-2004 |
Thank you very much for this information. I now understand why I have a spin-on oil filter. I have tried to see the engine number as described, but have not been successful. Where exactly must I look? Is the spin-on oil filter a RR part exclusively, or is there a suitable aftermarket part? If so, is it of good enough quality, or should I stick with the RR oil filter? Regards KC | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1012 Registered: 4-2003 |
The engine number on a '74 is located on a boss on the crankcase beneath the thermostat housing. The oil filter is generic. Crewe has sourced them from many suppliers including Crosland in the past (CROSLAND type 2160), and presently sources them from Fram of Europe (the filters are marked Bentley, Crewe and Fram, and come in a Bentley-Crewe box). It is a bog standard FRAM type PH-2931. Almost every filter manufacturer, from AC to Delphi to Ford to Lucas to Ryco to Unipart and more, supplies these filters to a cross-reference, and they also suit Jaguars among numerous other vehicles. From a Crewe outlet they are only a little more expensive than from a generic store, but they are all the same if they are physically the same size. Beware, as some types listed as being for your car are physically shorter and I would only trust one of an identical size to the original. To convert to spin off, only the filter pedestal needs to be changed to the later type. This is a routine change for most motor rebuilders, and does not necessarily mean that you have a later motor. Many cars have had a new pedestal retrofitted in service, and some have the inferior adaptors annoyingly requiring yet another filter type in some cases. It's no big deal to change types. Changing a cartridge type is a cinch and usually overly criticised as being a hassle, but they may become harder to come by as they only suit cars from Silver Clouds (6-cylinder onwards) to the last of the Silver Shadows (I). At least a cartridge type gives you an instant visual indication that all is well in your motor when there is no accumulated antifreeze or metal to be seen. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1013 Registered: 4-2003 |
For completeness, note that Silver Shadow II motors have their engine serial number (not to be confused with the build code under the compressor) relocated here:  | ||
| bob uk Unregistered guest Posted From: 80.3.64.11 |
Royce has always where ever possible supply parts that are better than the original. Which is why the replacement engine has a spin on filter --- better. You may find the engine has better internals and gaskets as well. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| KC Saayman Frequent User Username: kc_saayman Post Number: 39 Registered: 10-2004 |
I have finally managed to find the time to look for the numbers, and here are my findings. The number on the crankcase directly below the thermostat housing looks like L. S. 2, or possibly L. 6. 2. Next to that, also on a boss on the crankcase, below the aircon compressor, are the numbers 19461. This corresponds with my chassis number, and was stamped by the local dealer when they fitted the new engine to the car. Any idea what the L. S. 2 (or L. 6. 2) means? Kind regards KC | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1017 Registered: 4-2003 |
I can only suggest a guess for discussion. L=long stroke, S=abbreviation for SY, 2=rebuilt ? Silver Shadow II (reflecting the existence of the boss utilised here as the revised engine number location) ? Maybe they were provisional stock markings for identification awaiting a restamp by the dealer to match the final recipient car, in your case to be marked SYL19461 which was presumably the original engine number. Maybe even the policy is to identify rebuilt exchange motors by relocating the main number ?? Interesting is that the engine/chassis number has been stamped where the engine build code is located on a Silver Shadow II ! Could it just be that your motor started its career in a Silver Shadow II ? Is there any sign of a present or erased number as shown in the picture above ? | ||
| KC Saayman Frequent User Username: kc_saayman Post Number: 40 Registered: 10-2004 |
Thank you Richard Well, I just had a look, and yes, the number is indeed there just as in the picture above! It is clearly L 62. Does this confirm I have a Shadow II engine? It certainly is beginning to look like it. |
