| Author | Message | ||
     Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 438 Registered: 4-2003 |
Oh. no, not this boring topic again ! Perhaps there should be a new entry into the 12 month service schedule: replace steering rack. I replaced the steering rack of my Turbo R in September 2000. By March 2001 it was leaking again, albeit very slowly. I put up with it until June 2003 when I replaced it again in disgust, this time with the rack of a 1989-onwards car. These racks need a conversion kit (a pair of mounting blocks and a new lower steering column linkage), a very useful modification available from Crewe for all SSII cars and Spirits up to chassis 23935 when the new rack was introduced. I bought the rack from a premium UK repairer, certainly not skimping on costs. So, my expectation was that the new type of rack would be more reliable. So far so good. Six months later, drip drip drip. How boring. It took some months to be sure it is the rack itself and not anything else. Time for yet another replacement. To make matters worse, my beloved neighbours had the cops come around to issue a defect notice as the drips on the shared carpark entrance were annoying them. The reservoir only needs a little fluid from time to time, but a little fluid makes a big mess on any driveway. I have heard of leaky spool valves, but mine have leaked at the centre (ram) bellows in each case. The leaking fluid collects behind the bellows under normal use. When you turn to the region of full lock, it squirts out from the bellows. That means that if you reverse into your parking spot as I do, out come some drops to annoy the neighbours from time to time. You can check this by jacking up the front end, and pushing a road wheel quickly by hand to its steering lock. If a squirt of fluid comes from the centre of the rack, you have a problem. The present rack itself will be replaced under warranty, but I still have shipping and customs costs, and also the tedious job of fitting it sometime next month. There are outfits such as Atlantic Enterprises in the USA which offer lifetime warranties bless their souls, but that's little comfort really. Surely some outfit can find a cure to this chronic problem. My supplier told me yesterday that they are supplying three racks each week to one medium-sized London service centre alone. Don't tell me this should be normal. I know that Bill Coburn has an excellent repairer in Australia, but seem to remember that he even had one newish rack fail. I think that it's touch and go with even the best suppliers: those PTFE seals are just not good enough yet. Robert C: I replaced the two centre takeoff linkage bolts last time. They were a little difficult to source, but I agree that it is good practice at least on the first time you change a rack on an unknown car. The old bolts are fine, but I can imagine that overtorqueing may damage them. As these bolts are safety critical, replace them. If the rack comes out every two years they will need replacing by now anyhow. Or maybe I should convert to a steering box. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Prolific User Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 65 Registered: 9-2004 |
Richard do not convert to a steering box. My SS2 is far superior with the steering rack. I had similar problems and guess what it was leaking into the gaitors as yours is. I have gotton over my prob. It took me some time to correct the simple cause. I will let Robert have a shot first as his last post was not alarmist and nice to see he is still with us in good spirits. I was a little worried after one of his last postings to the moon. | ||
| Robert Chapman Grand Master Username: shadow Post Number: 107 Registered: 5-2003 |
Patrick, How munificent of you to countenance my last post, but your concerns for my well-being are erroneous and I fear inimical. My interest in Richards rack was merely one of curiosity,I have not and do not claim to have any magical solution to the perennial oil leaks from these racks. Neither the manufacturer nor any of the many experts around the world have been able to provide a permanent solution. I therefore look foreward to hearing the details of your solution to this ongoing problem. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 439 Registered: 4-2003 |
Thank you, Robert, for acknowledging my experiences that the leakage problem has not been solved yet. I find it very depressing to have to do this job so regularly, so it is a lille comfort (albeit somewhat cruel) that I am not simply making a mess of the job each time. Although tempted, I have never changed the seals myself as the result would no doubt be even worse. Years ago I raised the possibility of using fluid additives, but Bill Coburn's rackman gave grave warnings that pumps and racks would come a gusher soon afterwards. I even contacted Castrol about the possibly of using LHM fluid. They said that it would be fine, but would provide no improvement in seal life. If there really is a quick fix. could someone please shout it out ! | ||
| William H. Trovinger II Grand Master Username: bill_trovinger Post Number: 166 Registered: 8-2003 |
Richard; I might suggest you try Trans-X it is made by CRC Industries and a lot of people have had luck with this stuff stopping leaks in power steering systems. This includes yours truly, a ’73 Mustang I have owned for 31 years had a fluid leak in the steering system since it was about 3 years old. We replaced everything in the system at least twice and still it leaked. Problem with that car is we never found signs of the leak it would just loose about a half pint every few weeks. After putting the Trans-X in and running it about 200 miles the loss of fluid stopped. It still is not loosing fluid to this day and it has been two years now. Of course I will NOT make any guarantees but if you are looking at redoing the rack again this might be worth a go before hand. Their web address is: http://www.crcindustries.com/crcweb/ Best regards, Bill | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Prolific User Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 66 Registered: 9-2004 |
Bill.You have mentioned the additive i cannot say i have used that type but have used the wynns product. Yes it appears to work with the replacement racks that we have fitted VW Audi etc including my SS11. However the cause in my opinion is by another practice[i will not put many years of experience as i seem to get shot down in flames] Richard,Robert how are you having your wheels balanced,Do not get mad it is like the pitman arm nut torqueing excercise. It is not in the manuals but most important! | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 440 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Bill, and thanks for the recommendation. It is certainly worth considering, so don't take this response an any negative way. I have considered this before. There is a number of fluid additives available including the well-known CRC one, and mostly they are the same. They do work well, by softening the seals, true. I floated the idea on this forum some time ago. Bill Coburn took it up with his rack repairer, and was almost deafened by the angry response down the telephone. The warning is that the seals will indeed stop leaking, but eventually be so spongy that they blow out. Bill was also warned that the pump seals would be softened and damaged too (I have my doubts on this one mind you). The additive is probably safe in a power steering box where the seals are only at atmospheric pressure, and only work passively to retain fluid. However, in a rack, the ram seals are often at higher pressures, and are fundamental active components. I have no idea if this blowout theory is all true, but have no idea either why such a simple device should be so unreliable. I shall accept the warranty and change my rack yet again. I don't see why I should patch such a new rack by using additives. I want it right. Would you put the additive into the LHM braking system to stop caliper leaks soon after an overhaul ? I don't think so. There are parallels as LHM and Dexron are rather similar fluids. RT. | ||
| William H. Trovinger II Grand Master Username: bill_trovinger Post Number: 167 Registered: 8-2003 |
Richard; No, I do not take your comment in any negative light. Trans-X was designed originally for transmission, ergo the name. Once I asked the mechanic who rebuilt my Shadow's 400 tranny about this stuff (as a Jeep was having a slipping problem) and he almost took my head off.  After that I did some investigation (related to transmission) and it seems that the concern does have some merit. So, I came up with the idea of running the Trans-X in a transmission (1 quart) for 500 miles only. Then have the unit flushed and refilled with standard fluid only. This would allow time for the additives in Trans-X to soften the seals and clean away deposits but not leave the fluid in long enough to over soften seals. Ran the idea past two transmission mechanics and they felt it might work. I did this to one of our Jeeps and so far so good (knock on wood). Best regards, Bill | ||
| Robert Chapman Grand Master Username: shadow Post Number: 108 Registered: 5-2003 |
Well who would have thought of that,only a very experienced fitter I would suggest(how many years is it now pat). There it was all along right there in front of us all,specialist R-R repair shops seeing dozens of cars every week,specialist power steering companies,the manufacturer,and not least Crewe themselves. They must in my opinion ask the question "how come we didn't think of that" after all its so obvious! Well done pat,extraordinary. | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 275 Registered: 4-2003 |
Well let me under the influence of the odd Glen Livett recount my one major intercourse with an RR rack. A 1985 Spirit, rack leaking a little bit but a boot completely split. Off to my friends at Penshurst Power Steering in Sydney and back it comes looking very smart. Back on the car. A month later the slight leak became a big leak mainly around the pinion shaft. I called David my Penshurst man and wept volubly. Back it went. This time he took it entirely to pieces - it wasn't necessary to put the boot on before and found the seals had expanded so much the one around the pinion shaft had actually slightly scored the shaft!!!! Seems some dear fellow had put one of those regenerators in the system. It all had to be got out so I replaced every hose in the system including the high pressure one flushed the sytem beforehand with about a gallon of fluid, bled it and sent it on its way. No leaks after 35,000K and 2 years. David said however the problem is that the seal technology was ancient and therein lay the problem. The Blue Beast - my 84 Spur has the later offset mounted unit installed and so far has remained intact. Moral of the story is don't use that seal rejuvinator! | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Prolific User Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 71 Registered: 9-2004 |
Robert. There is yet again a procedure that yet again your brain cannot work out. Unless the pratice is in the manual you are blind to any established method as the years move on. I am now to the opinion that your many problems lie within the above. Maybe it is the fact that you like unessesary repairs and renewals for whatever reason i can only guess! As for your manner,it just shows yet again your true colours. | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.32 |
On 19/11, Patrick asked how we are having our wheels balanced, suggesting that whilst the requirement/procedure etc is NOT(?)"in the manuals", it is nevertheless as "important" as his assertion that Pitman arm retaining nuts be re-torqued periodically. Contrary to his assertion,many workshop manuals/books DO (for obvious reasons) explain the importance of wheel balancing, together with the procedure and (in some cases) the type of balance weight/s deemed preferable. Conversely, I have NEVER seen ANY such workshop manual reference to Pitman arm retention nuts. Perhaps, as a lifelong patron of the great uninformed, the reason for this anomaly might be explained to me, or will it remain UNANSWERED ala the questions (STILL outstanding!) re Valve spring seat location mediums and the "correct"(?)mounting points for tow bars/trailer hitches on Silver Shadows? (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.93 |
Power steering racks have traditionally been prone to leakage due to high operational hyd. line pressures, with leakage (to some degree)anywhere from the pump to the rack boots. In days of yore, I drove somewhat "lesser" makes of cars which had troublesome steering racks requiring re-sealing(or replacement) every few years. Upon talking to MANY long experienced/professional SPECIALISTS, the latter day/current equivalents of those cars do not suffer the same malady; at least not to the same extent or degree, ie incidence/severity etc. This would suggest, that as with many other automotive components, designs have improved, in particular, SEALS, as noted by Bill Coburn;19/11. Doubtless, seal manufacturers have spent MILLIONS in R&D to produce seals which will reliably perform under arduous conditions over an extended period of time. Suprised am I to learn, that such time and expense was entirely wasted, for according to some learned souls, the problem of leaking power steering racks was caused simply by wheel imbalance so easily corrected by hammering on a few lead weights down at some obscure "in by eight;out by noon", motor"fix"/cobblers shop. Design engineers around the globe must look on in awe. And with glazed eyes too. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Prolific User Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 72 Registered: 9-2004 |
J.G.Dare. Of confirmed horrible letter fame. Just keep replaceing Your Diffs, engines, steering racks etc. As you say. You are not an engineer just a professional with words. I am begining to see why you are needed so much in your profession. Racks to-day when repaired from good scourse do not give trouble unless there is an underlying fault. Prehaps you would like to explain the underlying fault of the spool valve pinion leeks. Yes there is,but may be in the manuals maybe not. Easy for any specialist. | ||
| Robert Chapman Grand Master Username: shadow Post Number: 110 Registered: 5-2003 |
Patrick Lockyer, Do I understand you correctly, the Welsh have started making steering racks as well now! | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Prolific User Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 75 Registered: 9-2004 |
Robert Chapman. For a second i thought you were going to inform us all of the underlying leaking spool valve fault,But alas no such luck as yet. Prehaps JG Dare of some fame will help you. | ||
| Robert Chapman Grand Master Username: shadow Post Number: 111 Registered: 5-2003 |
Patrick, My post was intended to highlight what must be axiomatic to most by now. Not only is your imperious style of post highly objectionable,but you don't know your ONIONS either! | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Prolific User Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 78 Registered: 9-2004 |
Robert chapman. Lets hear your most awaited findings or it it some more of your usual snipeing of words with the added alarmist posting. |
