| Author | Message | ||
     Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 203 Registered: 2-2013 |
Starting with the Shadow 1 and moving to the late model Spirits and Spurs - what exactly is going on in the market? I am open to other people's ideas on the matter and as I hoot I will tell you that I saw in last two years a Camargue for sale in OZ for $295,000 then watched the price lower by a hundred grand and then it vanished off the market not announcing if it was sold or kept but it definitely didn't go for 295k. Perhaps I misread the market but it appears to me the chrome bumper Rolls Shadows are moving up slowly in value while the Spirits and Spurs are still heading south. Why is this so? My premise is simplicity and attractiveness. The early chrome bumpered Shadows look very classy and I think amongst the present market of punters their love of polishing chrome takes a higher mark that the act of repainting plastic bumper bars. I call this the Anti Nader syndrome. Talk all you want about US safety standards but the hideous bumper bars that appeared on Mercedes and Volvos not to mention US spec Etype Jaguars were a first class eyesore that made one wonder if these cars were made for the electic dodgem cars course at the local travelling circus than the highways. I think that is one reason why there appears to be a trend towards an increasing value of Shadow Ones while Shadow Twos are either stagnant in value or sitting in market for years like unwanted VCR Video Machines. The second reason is the carburettor cars have less units on them to cause the cars to fail to proceed than the wizzbang electric fuel injection cars. I can usually diagnois a non starting carby engine in under 15 minutes. Electric fuel injection even with a Snap on scan tool can take hours to find a gremlin. My 1976 Cadillac Fleetwood has electric fuel injection. Interesting things have happened to it for a car that has not turned 77,000 miles in 39 years since it left the assembly line in Detroit. First there was the disintegrating 1 inch long hose between the fuel pump in the tank and the outlet that nobody in USA could point out may have turned into gunk, that was followed by another piece of fuel line between the steel outlet pipe and the secondary high pressure pump on the chassis rail. Not out of Dodge yet and the secondary pump starts to leak. A lovely piece of work by Bosch with "made in Germany" stamped on it. Call up big classic Cadillac dealers in USA and nobody know where to buy these pumps. Finally locate the pumps both of them at Rock Auto in USA and I get this cryptic message back from them to my question, are the pumps made in USA or China. "We deal with many manufacturers and they can't tell us where their products are made so we can't tell you" I read that as the pumps are Chinese junk so for just over $200 I can get these pumps imported here. So the time has come to convert this convert this 8.2 litre Cadillac engine from fuel injection back to carburettor. Interestly, Cadillac never sold the higher priced Limos with Fuel Injection in 1976 - every one of them had a carburettor. Perhaps General Motors did not want to cop a lawyers letter from the US CEO that bought these limos new. And that is the reason I think there is a growing devaluation in the Spirits and Spurs that have electronic fuel injection. People don't understand it and don't want to take the risk of it. Apart from that all these models in Oz at the moment are looking like good value to me. Even low model Carby Spirits are being put up for $14,000 AUD asking prices and that's a lot of luxury for little money. The mad scot's women was smart enough to go into hock a couple of years back and purchase a brand new Toyota Corolla for $26,000. She had a sook the other day when she tried to sell it to a dealer who just didn't want the thing but was prepared to give her $7,000 as a trade in if she wanted to buy some other car. I like to watch this piece of Jap junk getting tortured by her when she drives it every second week to my place over the dirt, gravel rock road. At 40 kilometres an hour she has managed to get one kangaroo. When she hits the bitumen at 100 kilometres per hour and has a kangaroo slide up her bonnet through the front windscreen and breaks her neck on its carcass if she survives she may just get my point that her lovely little Japper is not suited to the roads out this way. Its been entertaining to look under her car after each journey and spot the many new indentations in the sheet metal that this piece of junk gathers. No doubt if the dealer had the sense to get down on his hands and knees and look under the thing he would have referred her business to the local wrecker. My point is that if a new Jap junker cost $26,000 two years ago and is worth only $7,000 on a trade in, then all the Shadow, Spirits and Spurs with carburettors are worth $26,000 in good condition and the $60,000 fuel injected Spirit and Spur are going to hang around unsold for a long long time time like a Nevada vulture looking for the next meal of road kill. In finality let me just say that when I see a dealer put POA (ie Price On Application) I flip to the next page without bothering because POA to me means I am going to waste my time talking to somebody for nothing just to get them to inform me that they are asking a ridiculous price for the car. And as a painful postnote those of you who cringe at the price of fuel should take note that if you move to Venezuela where the capital city enjoys being the murder capital of the world you can still fill up your entire empty tank on your Rolls Royce for around one US greenback. Whether, you will live long enough to need another refil is another matter but Obama is cuddling up to Castro's brother as we speak and the other day I spotted a brand new Phantom in Hanoi, North Korea which still enjoys a communist government. Communism and Capitalism appear to have eloped sometime back and had a black market marriage that nobody can these days really explain.......well that's history for you. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1271 Registered: 6-2009 |
Vladimir Kirillov wrote: Finally locate the pumps both of them at Rock Auto in USA and I get this cryptic message back from them to my question, are the pumps made in USA or China. "We deal with many manufacturers and they can't tell us where their products are made so we can't tell you" I read that as the pumps are Chinese junk so for just over $200 I can get these pumps imported here. That's a very questionable assumption to make. Having recently gone through the same frustration for a number of parts (as country of origin used to be required on boxes) I've come to the conclusion that this requirement has been dropped in the USA because it's impossible to keep up with where a given part has actually been sourced (and often parts of parts have different origins). This all came about because NAPA auto parts gave me the same response regarding a specific part that you received from Rock Auto. The folks in a given store really don't have a clue as to country of origin because that can vary from shipment to shipment depending on where the parent company has contracted latest batch to be produced. Virtually every part manufacturer is now making the same part or parts in various locations or assembling components from multiple countries of origin in to the final part as sold. Most companies covet their reputations, which are hard won over decades, at a minimum, for most major auto parts makers. I've had Bosch parts made in many locations other than Germany, but I trust that if Bosch is willing to put their name on them that they meet the QC standards I've come to expect from that brand. Finally, although there's plenty of "junk" that comes from China there are also plenty of well-made products, too. There was a time, within my lifetime, when "Made in Japan" was code for "junk." That time is long gone. China is part of the world economy and its producers are relied upon by well-known brands all over the world. It strikes me as futile (in addition to incorrect) to believe that major manufacturers do not make certain that things sourced from anywhere, but bearing their names, don't also meet the standards those names have come to represent. Brian | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 206 Registered: 2-2013 |
You may be dead right Brian about my assumption being questionable but my experience with everything I have bought that has been made in China is that it is junk. That is apart from one clock alarm I bought 9 years ago which is still working. I would pay twice the price for a USA made product than a Chinese made product because my experience with American made products are that they are quality made. The problem is that a lot of large companies are having their stuff made in China and indeed a lot of chinese made stuff is made from slave labor inside their prisons. If these manufactures don't want to go to the bother of stating the country of origin then I am not going to buy their stuff at all unless its a last resort. I want to keep my Cadillac American, not turn it into a Chinese hybrid. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1272 Registered: 6-2009 |
Vladimir, I say the following without a trace of nastiness intended: Good luck to you. I agree with what you've said with regard to USA made products, but I also recognize that we're now truly in a world economy and there will be no going back. I really regret that amount of stuff that I have to buy that's made in China, not because of quality issues but because of the questionable labor practices (and political practices) that are endemic there. I've just found no way to escape it, even when intentionally trying to do so. Brian | ||
| Benoit Leus Prolific User Username: benoitleus Post Number: 193 Registered: 6-2009 |
Vladimir, I do indeed have the impression that good Shadows are picking up in value, but I don't feel the Shadow 2 is left behind. Certainly, very early "Chippendale" Shadows and T1/T2's seem to gather the most interest, but after that I have the impression it's good Shadow 2's that follow, leaving the "in between" series lagging a bit behind. But then again, it's only my impression and time will tell who's right. | ||
| bob uk Unregistered guest Posted From: 92.40.249.159 |
A thing that is often overlooked is that cars are not designed to be restored. The design life of a car is about 15 years. I have a Chinese made acoustic guitar which plays and sounds good. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 788 Registered: 1-2008 |
Bob: I think you'll find that 15 years is the design life of a car model rather than the individual cars. On the whole models will often be replaced even faster than that, while spare parts and even many standard service components will be discontinued 15 years or less after the model is 'upgraded/improved'. The term is planned obsolescence which means you are forced to scrap a perfectly working consumer item and replace it with a newer, shinier, all-singing, all-dancing, turbo charged, fuel injected, self-driving one that won't last as long as the first one. The whacking great wedge of taxes and duties on virtually all consumer goods, especially personal vehicles, just go to fund the champagne and caviar set skulking in the corridors of government. | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 459 Registered: 4-2009 |
The perception of the value of Shadows and Spirits is very much dependent on the country that you are in. In the Arabian Gulf, Shadows are equally priced regardless of their series. Spirits and their derivatives are different. The older ones are worth a lot less than the newer ones. A Spirit with Carbs will struggle to fetch US$15,000 in any condition. Dodgy early Spirits sell for as low as US$6,000. Corniches are not cheap - but these are expensive the world over. I agree totally with Brian about products from China. There are so many excellent Chinese made products these days - but nobody asks the question "at what invisible ethical cost?" | ||
| bob uk Unregistered guest Posted From: 188.29.164.124 |
Jan, I meant 15 years from new to scrap. Bearing in mind the cars that met their demise at a younger age. A washing machine could be designed and built to last say 20 years. But this will cost lots more. And in 15 years time be inefficient to new machines. I just buy a new machine, whatever is on special offer. Use it wear it out and do it all again. A washing machine lasts around 6 years in my house. This means every six years I get the lastest tectechnology. Bearing in mind that the machine will use more electric and soap than the machine cost to buy new. I could buy a £1000 Bosch machine which no doubt will go 15 years but I am then stuck with that technolgy for 15 years. The guitar I brought from China is made of wood local to China. Usually Indonesia. I would hate to think that an orangutan has lost his home or worst because of my stupid guitar. A lot of guitar wooden bits come from Indonesia because the wood is so good for instruments. Fender source wood from Indonesia. Strad Voilins are good because due to the wood which due to the climate of 1700s and before has tight grain. I have had a 5 minute browse of shadows for sale and the cheapest was £6k and the most expensive one £28k. However the market trend is slowly upwards. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Randy Roberson Grand Master Username: wascator Post Number: 366 Registered: 5-2009 |
A friend bought a '77 Wraith II showing 52K miles for less than $12K US. A set of tires and a tune up with some other misc. maintenance will make it a very nice car, though not absolutely perfect. I prefer the Shadows; they seem to have more character of design than the SZ cars. The carbureted Shadows with the 6.75 L engines are my favorites of the bunch: plenty of power; smooth, fewer electronics and more simple climate control, etc. I want another one, hopefully with left-hand drive this time. |
