| Author | Message | ||
     Jeffrey McCarthy Prolific User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 184 Registered: 5-2007 |
The headlights on SRH20280 ('74 Shadow) currently only work with one light on low beam: high beam lights up all four lamps. Apart from the fuses, I've checked: The otter switch thermal cutout (which is new); The connections on the Fuseboard and the ignition switch connections. All seems to be in order I'm assuming the problem therefore is the safety relay. This is on the driver's side under the blower motor and difficult to access so before I go in there are there any other suggestions. I'll check the toeboard connections this afternoon. The reverse, driving and stop lamps have failed as well - the lamps all work when tested. | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Prolific User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 185 Registered: 5-2007 |
Further to this I did get around to removing the relay- although I am not sure how to test if it's faulty. Is anyone able to confirm that this particular relay is a changeover relay with the following internals? I have some generic 20A/30 relays of this type I could try until I get hold of a Lucas relacement.  The RR Relay number I suspect is faulty is 33222F 12V 4472 | ||
| John Kilkenny Frequent User Username: john_kilkenny Post Number: 97 Registered: 6-2005 |
Jeffrey, Because the Safety Relay is used to maintain at least one outer filament in the case of a catastrophic headlight failure it is not likely to be the cause of your fault. The outer headlamps have a common feed from the dip switch to Fuses 9 and 10 and then to the lamps. With a voltmeter you could check that you have 12 volts on both ends on each of these two fuses with the lights on low beam. If OK you will need to check the wiring up to the lamps. With regard to your other faults there would not appear to be a common cause but remember you need to have the ignition on for these lights to operate. | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Prolific User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 187 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thanks John - I'm finding some quite odd old aftermarket work on this circuit around the ignition as well - various diodes and resistors wired into the middle of the wires etc. Also I no doubt disturbed a few connections around the place when I had the interior out to paint the floor. I'll use the voltmeter tomorrow morning and see where it leads. Incidentally I wonder if I'm alone in having the 'key warning buzzer' removed; the wires in the dash are blanked off; someone got annoyed by it I suppose. | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Prolific User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 198 Registered: 5-2007 |
Okay - I seem to have fixed the headlamps. I took the relay circuit board and the fuse circuit board out, cleaned them and checked for discontinuities, renewed a few very corroded connectors and also replaced the headlamp safety relay. One very basic question: On high (main) beam should only the 2 inner headlamps be on or should all 4 be on? As it's wired at the moment all 4 come on. Low (dip) beam is just the 2 outer ones. Also, there was a comment on another thread that the company added various diodes within the circuits as problems arose but that these aren't neccesarily on the diagrams. Several of mine have obviously been done locally and lately (cheap coloured plastic covered connectors give it away). Does anyone know offhand why there would be a diode in the circuit and 2 6w resistors parrallel wired to the circuit at the generator warning lamp? Presumably something to do with the automatic choke from the diagram? | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Prolific User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 199 Registered: 5-2007 |
P.S. and not really related to headlights but I have also finally found a source for the label/decals on the Shadow blower motors. These basically indicate where to put the positive and negative leads to get the motor turning in the right direction. Otherwise it sucks! On right-hand drive Shadows the one under the driver's side motor is usually at least partly preserved. The motor on the other side, being more exposed,is usually residual if it's there at all. Here's a photo of what I'm talking about.  Jeff | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2078 Registered: 4-2003 |
Jeff, On an Australian-spec car, all four lamps are for high beam. For some markets, fog lamps substitute the inner driving lamps. I assume that your headlamps were replaced by QH sets in the 1970s. How about upgrading to Xenon now to have a powerful lighting system like on a new car ? They have come down in price so dramatically that a conversion kit is a similar price to new quartz-halogen bulbs. Also, if not already done, a sequencing relay is desirable. You may reconfigure the floor switch so that either the floor switch or the headlamp flasher toggles the headlamps. Incidentally, Xenon lamps operate so cool that they are almost essential for cars like MkVIs these days. Those expensive reflectors will finally last forever, whereas incandescent lamps are hard on the reflectors due to the enormous amount of wasted heat. A Xenopn lamp produces six times as much light as a QH for a given wattage, and ten times that of a conventional bulb. This is ideal for older cars with limited charging capacity, as you can fit 15W Xenons and save a useful six amps or so in current whilst having over twice as much light. Using the higher wattage Xenons as on my Turbo R, I worked out that the four headlamps put out as much light as sixteen Cibié Super Oscars. RT. | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Prolific User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 200 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thanks for that Richard. I've nearly finished putting it all back together. A couple of questions - is it possible to use a xenon globe without having to have that really flat reflector glass? I'd like to do the upgrade from the Lucas sealed beams but keep the curved glass look. And one for the electronics experts out there: I've driven myself crazy on the net trying to work out the notation on the 2 resistors that are parallel wired into the generator light circuit on the ignition barrel. Do you know what the equivalent notation would read as? BS (This is the brand-name) I assume 60R 5WATT UKMADE FD 60R ? FD? There are 56R and 68R but 60R (60 Ohms?) shouldn't occur in the series with this notation should it? Incidentally does anyone know the reason for these? Confused... Jeff  | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2083 Registered: 4-2003 |
60 Ohm 5 Watts. Easy. 56R=56 Ohms, 68R=68 Ohms etc. 68k would be 68k Ohms, 68,000 ohms. Just buy them, wire wound preferably, over the counter at Jaycar. Mind you, 60 is a non-preferred value as they go through the decades in preferred values of 1, 1.2, 1.5, 1.8, 2.2, 2.7, 3.3, 3.9, 4.7, 5.6, 6.8 and 8.2. That is, a 56 ohm, a 560 ohm or 5.6k resistor is common but a 60 ohm is not. HID Xenon headlamps. Yes, they are fine in your existing lamp/lens/reflector units. Once fitted, you can's see the difference except that the headlamps are brilliant once turned on. These days you can buy a top-quality 35Watt 4,500K or 6,000K Xenon kit for $100 delivered for the dual beam H4 circuit (the kit covers bulbs, ballasts, a sealed relay unit and wiring for both sides of the car) and $70 for the H1 single beam inner lamps (again, the kit does both sides at once). If you go to 55W versions as I always have done, then they are $160 and $100. A 55W Xenon bulb is as bright as a 600W incandescent or a 350W quartz-halogen bulb. What’s more, the Xenon bulbs are cool to touch when turned on and have no filament to break either, so they last practically forever. The 6,000K refers to the bulb brightness, as defined as its equivalent to black-body-radiation at a temperature of 6,000 Kelvin. 4,500K bulbs are most suited to the human eye, but 6000K are the most popular as they are brilliant white without starting to look more than a tinge of the dreaded blue. I venture to say that 4,500K bulbs are most in keeping with any Crewe car before an Arnage. Mind you, mine are all 6,000K and I am very happy with them. These bulbs come with the special fitting, including the focussing & antidazzle shroud, so that the unit fits straight in as a replacement for the H4 bulb you already have (dual beam) and H1 (single beam). You do not need new lenses-reflectors as long as you are using H4s and H1s already. Originally these cars had ancient incandescent bulbs, but it’s hard to imagine that any remain without at least quartz-halogen H4/H1 inserts. To fit the lamps, there is minimal wiring, and the ballast/inverter mounts conveniently nearby each lamp. I fitted another set this weekend, to some trumped-up German flat six thingo this time. You can always go for 8,000K or even 12,000K bulbs, but even the 8000K one start to look ridiculously blue like on an ageing 1990s Audi or BMW. If you replace only the dual-beam lamps, then the others look far too yellow and out of place. Also, to look right, you simply need LED bulbs for the front sidelamps. RT. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2084 Registered: 4-2003 |
ps: ypur resistor is in parallel with the generator (alternator) warning lamp. The value is not critical. It is only there in case the warning lamp blows. If the bulb blows, the resistor still burns off 2 watts or so, preventing spikes and square waves from upsetting or damaging other components nearby such as diodes and electronics. Anthing from 30 to 300 ohms will do, but a 30 ohm resistor would need to be rated at about 10 watts to be safe burning off 5W when conducting at 12V. If yours has burned out I would be very surprised. A 68 Ohm 5 W will be fine as it would burn off around 2 Watts whenever the warning lamp is illuminated. RT. | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Prolific User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 201 Registered: 5-2007 |
Ah, Thanks once again Richard, you are a treasure trove of critical information. I have a nice collection of wire-wound 5 watt resistors to choose from. Reading on the net I was hoping it was there as a fail-safe and not regulating some heat driven switch somewhere. I, incidentally, still had 3 of the original Lucas sealed-beam headlights on the car when I bought it, and one ring in copy so I need to buy reflectors anyway and want to get the best, which Ive heard are Cibie, but rev-heads on the net are a bit like fishermen in the pub and their favourite lures when it comes to the 'best': I'll do more research on that. I've just changed the indicator/flasher switch on the steering wheel. My flashers didn't work with the old one and still don't ! And my left headlight has stopped working again! Back to the multimeter. Cheers all, Jeff | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2087 Registered: 4-2003 |
Jeff, If the left hand lamp is playing up, maybe it's a good time to convert them. By the way, the headlamp units are nothing special or valuable. There is any number of cars that use those headlamps. Just be sure to have one as an H4 (ie suits an H4 twin-beam bulb) and the other as an H1 (suits the H1 single-beam bulb). They are used unaltered on many everyday cars right through the 1980s. For a start, try HZ Holdens and the like with the quad lamps, BMW 3-series, 5-series and 7-series up to 1988 (for 1989 the BMWs have the lower slot for the sidelamps built into one headlamp). Note that the H4 (twin beam) is not normally found on BMWs, as they use one H1 for low beam and another H1 for high beam. Other cars like Holden Geminis sometimes have them too. On the Turbo R they are the larger but still standard 7” types as used universally on many brands for decades too. Mine are all Cibié, but that’s no big deal as they are not exactly hard to find. RT.  | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Prolific User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 202 Registered: 5-2007 |
When you say one as H4 and one as H1 is that High beam as H4 & H1 as low? Incidentally what code are you using to get the acute accent on the 'e' in Cibie - or do you have the shortcut on your keyboard? (Message edited by jefmac2003 on 22 March 2010) | ||
| Stefan Morley Prolific User Username: myupctoys Post Number: 192 Registered: 7-2009 |
Hi Jeffrey, http://db.hella.com.au/container.html My car had the outer ligth missing when I bought the car and didnt know what to get. Found this link. Stefan | ||
| Stefan Morley Prolific User Username: myupctoys Post Number: 193 Registered: 7-2009 |
Jeffrey, Sorry, link goes the the entry page. Click on the Globes link on that page. H1 is a single filament (like spotlight) H4 is dual filament like low beam high beam. Stefan | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2090 Registered: 4-2003 |
H4 is a European standard for a twin filiament bulb. An H1 is a single filiament bulb. The designs were invented by Hella around 1970, hence the H prefix, and became the European standard as adopted worldwide except for the USA. The Americans never accepted anyone's standard but their own, so they changed the design by 0.01mm to call it their own and renamed it the 9003 and HB2. H4, HB3 and 9003 are, of course, identical Quartz Halogen bulbs. So, your twin-beam lamps will be marked H4 on the glass, accepting H4 bulbs. The inner single high-beam lamps will be marked H1. Of course, you can always fit an H4 as a driving lamp and use only the main beam. However, an H1 is preferable for that beam in every case and especially with Xenons.  | ||
| John Kilkenny Frequent User Username: john_kilkenny Post Number: 100 Registered: 6-2005 |
Regarding the function of the resistor across the alternator warning light it is unlikely that it protects components against the blowing of such a small lamp. The circuitry of the Shadow is so rudimentary that you would need a lightning strike to upset it. It is more likely to prevent an increase in field voltage from illuminating the lamp slightly under a low battery condition. An earlier version of the circuit had a blocking diode in series with the lamp which was probably for the same reason. | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Prolific User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 203 Registered: 5-2007 |
The diode is, in fact, there in my 1974 car. I've replaced it with a new one. The resistors get quite hot, which is why I was curious about them. Frankly I think I might just as easily replace the globe with a Light Emitting diode and see what happens. Having the lamp glow under low voltage wouldn't distress me too much. Jeff | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2091 Registered: 4-2003 |
Jeffrey, don’t worry, The resistors, at 60 Ohm, will draw about 1/5 A and pump out about 2 ½ Watts (each, if you have resistors paralleled) when the lamp is illuminated. That will keep a 5W resistor quite hot. It’s about the same current/power as the bulb draws, hence the sizing. It may be a good measure to replace the diode if you haven’t already done so. RT. | ||
| John Kilkenny Prolific User Username: john_kilkenny Post Number: 101 Registered: 6-2005 |
Jeffrey, It is not a good idea to have hot resistors unrestrained as shown in your photo. Because the condition is probably marginal and as you already have the diode in circuit, you might like to remove the resistors and see if the lamp still does what it is supposed to do, that is comes on with the ignition switch and goes off when the engine starts. Check that the next time you have a high rate of charge the lamp doesn't come on. John | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2092 Registered: 4-2003 |
John, The resistor is there for good reason. I would not tempt fate and remove it. Crewe often learned the hard way, especially on early Silver Shadows. Witness the numerous ad-hoc quick fixes which secretly crept into the cars until around 1972. RT. | ||
| Clifford Donley Frequent User Username: flatus Post Number: 57 Registered: 12-2009 |
"Incidentally what code are you using to get the acute accent on the 'e' in Cibie - or do you have the shortcut on your keyboard?" This is the way all sorts of keyboard magic is done: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/help/HA101675391033.aspx#CharacterMap Cliff | ||
| John Kilkenny Prolific User Username: john_kilkenny Post Number: 102 Registered: 6-2005 |
Richard, According to the circuit diagrams which I have, Jeffrey's car should either have the blocking diode or parallel resistor but not both. Incidentally, hanging a 5 Watt resistor on a wire behind the dashboard is not my idea of good design. John | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 557 Registered: 6-2006 |
Interestingly enough, I came across this a couple of weeks ago. (Don't ask! lol) . . . Deletion of alternator warning lamp resistors Applicable to Bentley Mulsanne Turbo and Bentley Turbo R cars from vehicle identification number (VIN) *SCBZS0T05GCH15478* Introduction The alternator warning lamp resistors have been deleted from the above motor cars. The decision has been taken to modify the turbocharged motor cars already in service (post VIN number*SCBZS0T09GCX13875*). This should be done when the motor cars enter the workshop for servicing or other maintenance work. Description Premature operation of the starter motor inhibit can occur during attempts to start the engine, the symptom of which is failure of the starter to operate on a motor car with a known charged battery. Deleting the alternator warning lamp resistors will eliminate the possibility of this happening. Procedure • 1.) Disconnect the battery. • 2.) Remove the dashboard facia. | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Prolific User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 204 Registered: 5-2007 |
1- Interestingly my diagram also doesn't show the resistors - but then it doesn't show the diodes on the split parking switch either. However, on every photograph I've ever seen of a Shadow ignition barrel for sale on ebay (like the one I posted) the resistors are there free floating against the side of the casing. NOT good design I agree. Perhaps they're there to make the starter motor inhibit kick in? I'll replace them anyway as one of them is clearly damaged as a result of my playing around a bit roughly when removing the barrel. Meanwhile if my (new) starter motor stops working I'll have an idea where to look. 2 - While I have it all out I'll check to see what the lamp does both with them and without them and report back. 3 - Tried repalcing the globe with an LED and yuck! Way too bright so I put the incandescent straight back in. Incidentally I tried this once with the high/low beam indicator bulb so I could see it in daylight: Don't! The position of the bulb is directed precisely into the driver's pupils and will burn your retina pronto. | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Prolific User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 205 Registered: 5-2007 |
Oh Joy at Last !! The intermittent left headlamp failure was down to a bent female lucar connector in an engine bay firewall plug! It was only tangentially touching the male toeboard connector. I replaced it with a new (marine grade tin-plated brass) one and presto. Did I mention that this fault was first discovered on the day I took SRH20280 to renew her rego? God, it seems, does enjoy a game of dice with Murphy after all.... All this hair-tearing frustration has been to the end of getting her back on the road before the 3 months grace is up in 5 weeks time. Still, when I do the High/Low, Flasher and headlamp mods it'll be a doddle - I now dream about circuitry in my sleep! Thanks one and all for the shoulders to lean on while I've been trying to fix this. :-) Jeff | ||
| Mark Aldridge Experienced User Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 13 Registered: 10-2008 |
Richard,I considered a HID xenon conversion on my Shadow,but apparentley these are probably illegal as an aftermarket fitment in the UK and the performance of these kits is being critisised. MOT stations are failing them. What conversion kit did you use and was this E marked? Mark | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2093 Registered: 4-2003 |
Jeffrey: good safe move. Although those resistors are so obviously so hastily tacked on, the modificastion continued in production for almost a decade. Some poor chap went to a lot of trouble to solve some obscure problem. Even Crewe wouldn’t have agreed to such a miserable fitting for no real reason, so let’s not try to guess why. Maybe it did cause problems on intermediate SZs with their Motorola alternators, hence the curious and even hastier factory bulletin Paul notes, although it referred mainly to SZs. I see that the diode is shown for your car, but not the resistor. See below, or page 343 of http://rrtechnical.info/SY/TSD2476/Version2/21.pdf yet from what I hear the modification to attach the resistor was carried out by York Motors and the like pre-delivery right through to the CAV SZs. RT.  (Message edited by Richard Treacy on 26 March 2010) | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2094 Registered: 4-2003 |
Mark, It has E4 approval 02 0620 Sure there are many illegal sets out there, and they should be banned. If the MOT knocks back a legal setup, you may put the H4s and H1s back in minutes to calm the blighters down. Note that Xenons are legal only if the dipping bulb is housed in the proper deflector module as shown below. The bulb itself is within this bright housing. The bulb and solenoid unit slides in with a bayonet lock. Low beam is with the lamp illuminated, and the solenoid draws the bulb rearwards mechanically within its housing for high beam. Once retracted, the high beam shines additionally through a slot to the high beam area of the reflector. Other types move the housing or an eyelid on the housing, keeping the bulb static. Those are not so good. The really nasty conversions have a combined quartz halogen and Xenon bulb in one, one for high beam and one for low beam. Only a proper Bi-Xenon moving bulb unit is really good. Note that a Xenon bulb alone will certainly not be legal on a standard reflector as bare Xenon bulbs are usually designed for use with a projector lens. RT. Bi-Xenon Moving Bulb in Housing. This provides high beam and low beam in one bulb, in this case to replace an H4.  | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Prolific User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 206 Registered: 5-2007 |
Richard I'm a little confused by the above. Does this mean that to convert my car from the sealed beams I need: 2 x H1 and 2 x H4 Cibie reflectors. 4 x H1 Xenon bulbs 4 x reflector bulb housings If I need the above, how does the solenoid know which 2 are in the high beam reflectors? | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2095 Registered: 4-2003 |
Jeffrey, You need: One H4 conversion kit, which contains two H4 Bi-Xenon bulb/housing units as shown above, two ballasts/inverters and a relay control module, and One H1 conversion kit, which contains two H1 Xenon bulbs and two ballasts/inverters That's it. Total cost is $250 or so, maybe less. That's not much more expensive than a set of premium conventional quartz-halogen bulbs. RT. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2097 Registered: 4-2003 |
OK, if you still have sealed beams and not H1 and H4 units, I would be surprised. Assuming that you at least already have quartz-halogens, then your existing semi-sealed beam units will do just fine. However, if you really have conventional sealed beams, you would also need two H4 and two H1 semi-sealed beam units (ie glass and reflector ubits). They are industry-standard units available quite cheaply new or secondhand. Semi-sealed simply means that they have replaceable bulbs so that you may drop in any incandescent, H1/H4 quartz-halogen or H1/H4 Xenon bulb. ps: the H1 bulbs do not need that housing as they are used exclusively for high beam. The silvery housing shrouding the H4 Bi-Xenon bulb as shown in the picture above is only there for low beam so not to blind oncoming traffic with a naked bulb. | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Prolific User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 207 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thanks Richard, I've got it now. The headlights I have at the moment are the Lucas sealed beams so I'll do the whole conversion in one go. Cheers, Jeff |
