| Author | Message | ||
     Mark Anson Prolific User Username: bentleybloke Post Number: 32 Registered: 11-2004 |
Hi All, I am starting this thread again as my question may have been lost under the wrong heading...anyway I have have just bought a Shadow 1 with an electrical problem. Here is the part of my original post. The deal is done! I now own a Shadow one. On arrival the poor car looked a bit too far gone to even consider rescuing but on much closer inspection I could see a little gem waiting to be brought back to life....I also saw the seller struggling in the boot with the battery. As I walked up the drive he looked a little sheepish (embarrassed). He had told me on the phone the car runs great and ticks over like a sewing machine. What he had omitted to tell me was that was 12 months ago! The battery was dead so he tried jump starting it, he says the engine turned over slowly but did not fire. He then went and bought a brand new battery and had just fitted it. He now does not have any ignition (gen) or oil lights when you turn the key. The door, hazard lights, interior and headlights work OK but its dead on the key. Does anybody have an idea what could have caused it. Would fitting the battery the wrong way around blow anything? It was right when I arrived but who knows what he had been doing before I got there. Would appreciate any help on the lack of dash lights. I have done a quick check of the (weird) little fuses they all appear OK. I pressed the reset button on the fuse panel but this seemed OK too. There is no power to these fuses in the fuse box except the light circut. Many thanks Mark | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 319 Registered: 9-2004 |
Mark im thinking the puff of smoke may in fact be the main cause as the owner stated he was moveing the car in his drive when this happened,he would have had the bonnet closed so infact he would only see the smoke comming out off the front grill as the engine died probably thinking it was the light area. If this is correct i would look at the main feed from the starter solenoid to the main loom that goes to the toeboard block conectors etc. If all is well there then to be continued**  | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 416 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Mark, Please see my post under your original topic. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 314 Registered: 9-2004 |
Mark when doing your tests by the diagram do not overlook the basics with regard to the earths and high resistance checks in regard to the reverse current within units. The cars are getting old and earths can corrode causing the most strange probs. | ||
| Mark Anson Prolific User Username: bentleybloke Post Number: 34 Registered: 11-2004 |
I have just had a look at my Shadow and found there is a live from the battery to the starting motor solenoid and also the small wire that comes off the same post as the battery (and I am presuming it goes into the car)has a live feed too. Looking at the wiring diagram David so kindly sent I see that feed wire goes to a starter relay. Unfortunately I see no mention in the manual of such a relay. Could anyone tell me where it is on a 1975 Shadow 2? If I found that I could work my way backwards and hopefully find the fault. One bit of good news....I found the switch for my electric sunroof! whilst sticking my head under the dash. Cheers Mark | ||
| John Dare Grand Master Username: jgdare Post Number: 187 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hello Mark. I assume you mean 75 Shadow 1, or do you have a later Shadow 2 as well?. In either case, could you kindly post details of the style/make etc of sunroof (elec.) which you refer to?. Thank you. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 315 Registered: 9-2004 |
Mark from memory i think you will find the relay on the o/s bulk head under the bonnet it is the top o/s one of four relays the others are the choke relays if i am correct. Do check the earthing if it is ok then go to the toe board connections. After that the shunt on the amp meter.behind the dash. Hope this is of help. | ||
| Mark Anson Prolific User Username: bentleybloke Post Number: 35 Registered: 11-2004 |
Sorry John, Typo error...its a Mk 1 Shadow made in 1975. My car has a steel sunroof it looks original but I could be wrong (any ideas?)...I thought it was manual as there seems to be some sort of blank missing in the roof inside. I presumed there was a handle that went there. I was made up when I found the switch. This by the way works without the ignition being on so I think my electrical fault is with the starter relay. Will have a quick look in the morning. I might swap the relay (if I find it) with another one from elsewhere on the car. Many thanks Mark | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 318 Registered: 9-2004 |
Mark In reply to the battery being fitted the wrong way round you may find when everthing is working ok that the warning altenator light may glow a little. This may be the result of some blown diodes in the altenator! | ||
| John Dare Grand Master Username: jgdare Post Number: 188 Registered: 12-2004 |
Thank you Mark. How fortunate you are to have a steel (panel) sunroof which could have been installed when new, confirmation thereof, probably being available via the orig. "build" sheet. Perhaps you could post some pics. from interior/exterior perspectives (with some focus on the side "runners") with the roof panel in a semi retracted position? Thank you. | ||
| Mark Anson Prolific User Username: bentleybloke Post Number: 37 Registered: 11-2004 |
UPDATE: I have just spent a couple of hours tinkering with the Shadow. Here are some of my findings with ref the lack of ignition lights. First I removed the cover on the O/S/F engine bulkhead. This was just below the alternator control unit. I found only two relays (unlike the manuals information saying there are four on a printed circuit board.) These relays were hard wired and bolted to the bodywork. Anyway I joined the supply and the item feed wire (with a fused lead so by passing the relay) and the engine turned over instantly, I had found the starter relay! There was no other live feed to this relay. Next I traced a large live feed wire to the fuse box. This seemed to power the windows and lights. The fuses that needed to work ie: fuel pump etc were still dead. Looking at the wiring diagram I saw the fuesboard gets the power for these items from the ignition switch. I then removed the wood from the speedo/dash and gently removed the ignition switch....its the size of a dustbin! When I put my test lamp on the BIG wire it was live, I am hoping this is the main feed and this is the reason the side lights work. There were so many wires going into this ignition switch it is hard to see exactly what each wire does. The wiring diagram is not very clear so I am leaving anymore work until tomorrow as it is dark here now. I have a question, has anybody had a faulty ignition switch in the past? Is this a common fault? I am presuming this is what I have as there is power going in but when the key is turned the connection is not being made. This is why the fuse box is dead on the ignition side. I will try and bypass the switch in the morning and see if the Gen and Oil lights come on. I bridged the fuse box by accident when checking the fuses and the tape player (Elvis singing are you lonely tonight!!!  burst into life. Also the low pressure warning lamps and others lit up. I was also able to move the electric seats with my probe wedged across the fuse terminals. The Oil light came on too so I am presuming the ignition switch is my problem. Will let you all know tomorrow. Cheers Mark | ||
| Mark Anson Prolific User Username: bentleybloke Post Number: 38 Registered: 11-2004 |
FAULT NOW FOUND!!!!!!! Hi All, I'm a happy bunny....just found the fault and thought I would let you know what it was. I removed the aluminum cover on the back of the ignition switch its held on with three knurled nuts and slid it back along the wiring loom. I then could see the ignition mechanism and the connectors very easily. With my test lamp I followed the path of the live. There is a small copper bar that links the number 2 post with the number 1 post. This had fractured, you could not see the break as the copper bar has a thick yellow plastic coating over it. I don't know if this is a fusible link or just a link wire. Does anybody know what it is? Many thanks for all your help. Mark | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 319 Registered: 9-2004 |
Great news Mark,as for if it is a fusible link it could be as it would save the switch its self from distruction with a high current from some other fault not fused perhaps. I myself have not come across this prob. I thought the switch gear was bullet proof,protected by relays and fused. Has this caused the failings on the gear actuator. | ||
| Mark Anson Prolific User Username: bentleybloke Post Number: 39 Registered: 11-2004 |
....Has this caused the failings on the gear actuator? I hope so Patrick, that would save me a lot of time if it was. At the moment I am to busy to tinker on the Shadow, I was only looking at it in between paint coats whilst respraying my Daimler limo. The wife is a little unhappy I own the Shadow anyway so I cant push my luck. I had noticed before I found the ignition fault the gear selector seemed to operate an electrical relay of some sorts when you moved the leaver with the ignition off. Can anyone tell me if this is the case, can you take it out of park without the ignition on? The previous owner had removed the link from the actuator to the box. I wondered if he had done this to get the car mobile so it could be pushed. Many thank Mark | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 550 Registered: 4-2003 |
Mark. Depending on the spec, either: 1. It automatically goes into park when you remove the key (later cars and earlier cars for some markets), or 2. You cannot remove the key unless it is in park (most UK and Australian Silver Shadows). In both cases, the selector will not function with the key removed. | ||
| Mark Anson Prolific User Username: bentleybloke Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2004 |
Thanks Richard, that sounds promising. I will spend an hour on it at the weekend and report back. I will take a picture of the broken link too. What is the maximum file size you can upload on this site? (in size not pixels please) Cheers Mark | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 551 Registered: 4-2003 |
Mark, There are two constraints: see the site instructions. 1. 100kb max and 2. Max 5.41cm x 4.06cm or 2.13 inches x 1.60 inches (640 x 480 pixels). That's a standard postcard-sized, medium-quality picture. | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 339 Registered: 4-2003 |
Mark while you are in the 'dustbin' - fair comment - have a good look at the actual ignition switch mechanism. it is comprised of a number of copper spring contacts. If excess power has been pumped through them they can burn and weaken with heat. They are replaceable. | ||
| Mark Anson Prolific User Username: bentleybloke Post Number: 42 Registered: 11-2004 |
Well I got an hour to tinker today. Unfortunately I thought I could just bend the copper link wire around and slide a thick piece of wire with spade terminals on the end to bridge the break, but as usual nothing is that easy. The other end of the copper wire broke too. I can see a small stress fracture so this might be a common fault and could happen to one of your cars. My problem now is 1. Getting a replacement part (any ideas in the UK?) and 2. fitting it. The workshop manual I have on CD does not give you any information about the ignition switch. Does anybody have a complex workshop manual that the RR technicians would use? I need to know how this switch comes apart. I don't want all sorts of springs and wires to shoot out when I undo all the screws and bolts. Many thanks Mark | ||
| Mark Anson Prolific User Username: bentleybloke Post Number: 44 Registered: 11-2004 |
I hope to phone the Rolls Royce dealer in Manchester tomorrow to see if they have a replacement link. Here is the offending item, can anyone see any mention of it in any of your manuals. I am also keen to locate a picture of the internal workings of this ignition switch, can anyone help? I don't want to make a little problem turn into a big one! Many thanks Mark  |
